Minutes – Interview with Noam Chomsky – 1/31/12

having a roadmap –to get $ out of politics–for other issues,  a tool to  get what we want rather than a first goal, would fly better with GA’s
walt from occupyportland  was thinking about community building–reaching out in public ways
public discourse is part of our goal
removing private funds from politics as issue:  support that this could be the main goal of our whole movement…could work with t partyProf Chomsky indicated Article v or constitutional convention is long way off
Question about the Goals of the occupy movement and it’s coverage by the mainstream media:

Coverage of Occupy – been mixed, at first dismissive, making fun people playing games and silly kids and so on – it changed, remarkable success of OM, changed the entire framework of discussion for many issues, imagery of 99% and 1% dramatic fact of inequality of the lat 30 years, small concentration of wealth.

all of this has been brought to the fore – coverage itself has been very in some places, biz press, fairly sympathetic, general picture is why don;t they go home, where is their political program, how do they fit into mainstream structure, inevitable repression, clearly coordinated. there was a  stand off, some occupations have been removed, some have filtered back in some other form, media coverage of that has been spotty, why don’t they go away and leave us alone.

how to respond to it: reaching out to bring into the general occupation, much wider sectors of the population, lots of sympathy of goals and aims, step short of engaging people, has to become part of their lives, people need to think they cane do something about it. spread and deepen the achievement of the movement: create a community, real functioning communities of mutual support, care for one another, highly significant in our society where community and isolation have taken over. the ayn rand version. 150 years to try to impose that way of thinking on people. industrial revolution, mid 19th century – lively press run by working people, widely read – they bitterly condemned the “new spirit of the age – gain wealth forgetting all but self.”

another achievement, develop a real manifestation of this in a striking way. not in it for themselves, for each other and broader society and future society. bonds and associations were formed, if they can bring them into the society

how can OM engage the culture?

NC – have spaces, whether they should be open and public depend on close evaluation of circumstances in each place. methods – people have problems and concerns, if they can be helped to feel that their problems are part of a broader movement it can take off – there is no answer, go into a neighborhood – their concerns might be a traffic light, or foreclosures, community based enterprises. Models can be followed, such as in Brazil, President of Brazil and I travelled.  We went to a suburb of Rio.  Rich live DT, poor live in suburbs.  A small group of media professionals came out regularly and set up a truck in the square. They had a screen above it and they presented skits, plays, and things written and acted by people in the community.  As people gathered in the square, some walked around with mics for comments.  Comments were shown on the screen. People were engaged in talking about quite serious topics.  I don’t suggest to duplicate, but this can be done to engage broader sectors so that they have a reason to feel connected. This could lead to a new socio-econ system, but there is no formula. The more active public support, the better support against repression and violence.

Ian: What about getting money out of politics?  How do you do it?  How do you engage people?

NC:  It is now at the point where elections are just public relations extravaganzas, take away corporate personhood, we’re not near that, short term things: primary season, primaries are radically undemocratic. NH primary – candidates show up come to a town, lot of publicity, ads doopla, tell the people in the town, here’s who i am, this is what i’m going to do, they don’t say much, a democratic primary, people would get together, discussions, come up with ideas what should be down local, state , national, intl, they would tell the candidate, they might pick their own candidate, we don;t want to hear speeches from you, we will tell you what we want policies to be, direct rep coming out of community, right from the ground, broader ways getting money out of politics, its not just elections, things have reached a point, even in congress – if someone want degree of decision and authority they literally have to buy it.

chair of comm – was granted on seniority and service, now you have to pay the party to be a candidate of a chair. this is not 100% but it is a widespread tendency. you can see it in the campaigns which are farcical.

INT – anarchist inspiration, how can we recapture that term and dispel stereotypes

NC – you have to do something constructive and concrete that people can identity with, spontaneous comms of democrat#ic participation and mutual support, that is something people can comprehend, they can develop that in their own comms, develop your own conceptions on whata meaningful system of libety and freedom is.

INT – elections season, how do you assess the goal of the DNC co opting the OM.

NC – each of the 2 parties, the Rs abandoned pretence of political party. uniformaly and dedicated to tiny sectors of power and profit. they are hardly a pol party anymore. they have to do something to get a voting constituency, mobilize sectors of the society that were always there: nativists, evangelicals, small biz, historically not unlikely dempgraphy that nazi’s galavanized.

Ds are different, different constituents but pretty much on same path. moderate republicans now. they will try to organize mobilize their constituency. Ds abandoned white working class. sad development. mobilize blacks, hispanics, progressives, OM, organized labor. people have to undertsand, maybe they’ll do something for you but only if you apply constant pressure. money/pols hard to beat the comment of Mark hannah – what was importnat in politics

1. money
2. money
3. forgotten what the 3rd one is.

Concentrated wealth will use its wealth and power to take over political system as much as possible. public has to struggle against that.

centuries ago david hume – foundations of govt – power is in the hands of the governed.

the only way the rulers can control that is control of opinion and attitudes of the population. propaganda, consumerism, stirring ethnic hatreds.

nothing wrong with support to a candidate as long as they are doing what you want, it would be more democratic if reps could be recalled.

antonio gramsci -

NC – he talked things not unlike david hume was saying. personally think he’s worth reading, says well what we more or less know. nothing very novel. may be my inadequacy.

economics dominated by fixation, more more more, how do

NC – human species facing serious problem of whether even decent existence can be carried forward, close to edge of precipice, environmental destruction, growth means constant attacks on natural life greenhosue emissions, agri land if that what it means, we are like lemmings walking over a cliff\

growth can mean simpler lives, takes labor development of a different kind. different goals besides more consumer goods, one of the functions of these democratic communities can be a different ay of living, maximizing values that are important for life. growth in a different directions.

INT – talk to housing bubble, what is at the root

NC – major shift in the economy that started escalting under reagan and thatcher. big growth – 50s and 60s, then it was egalitarian, it absorbed excluded factions, came to end at the end of the 60s. in 70s, shift – shift towards increasing role of finance. financial systems wiping out functioning markets like larva eats away. combined with corp decisions to shift production abroad. to make more profit.

deregulation contributed to this. 80s we started getting crises and bubbles. money floating around much less production. households could survive during stagnation is getting involved in bubbles.

housing prices trend for a century matched GDP. they started shooting out of sight in the last 10 years. sub prime morts, derivatives, all of that took off, created a bubble, barely noticed economics profession including Fed. Minutes of 2006 came out – no recog that there was a multi trill bubble without basis. they congratulated themselves. it collapsed, 8 trill paper wealth lost, for much of the pop that was all they had. reduced to nothing. that will happen without regulated markets.

financial casino instead of productive economy

STACK

william – thank you – pleasure to listen to NC. hit it on the head how to we get society in solidarity with movement, remove stigma, do something positive and concrete, something always been true. focus it back on restoration.

steve – noam is brilliant, working at bank on wall street, knew what was going 98 and 99 FTC, testified about housing bubble problem in California. Greenspan was an ayn rand economist.

julia -

listening campaign -
I have to leave. Thank you for a fine meeting. Occupy Savannah and Occupy Statesboro. Julia Clark and the Anti Corruption Campaign. Thank you for the notes.

community based actions, community gards, food justice, intentionial communities, we need to address violence and diversity of tactics. violence will alienate people.

nonviolence, emergency call – its crucial.

getting money out of politics call